Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Im having sort of an internal issue. I'm at a cross roads, let me explain:

I believe, like most, regardless of who gets in office were in trouble. It is clear that the feds and states are making a bug push to limit to movement and purchase ammo, subverting the harder to control gun market. I believe that if Obama gets in we will see a very fast reinstatment of the assualt weapons ban nation wide.

As such, I believe that now(before end of the year) is the time to A) get a jump on getting my concealed weapons license and B) get a long gun, ASAP.

This puts a shift in my pre determined gun purchases, so heres where I need the help.

Im horribly inept at the search feature, so what im looking for are a list of various sites that ship to FFL dealers for the following:

AK's
AR-15's
Saigas
Other similar types of mid priced(~$700 or less) rifles
Sub $350 pistols(tarus, Hk's, etc) preferably in 9mm, .40 or .45
New or used(if in decent condition, I.E. doesnt need much TLC to get back up and going)

My wife has finaly caved and is willing to learn to shoot and obtain a CCL to carry for herself. The problem is due to extended financial issues and other personal reason, I no longer have any rifles(assault or otherwise) or pistols.

The pistols are the main focus right now. The caibler unimportant as long as its fairly common. The ak's, ar's etc I want because as I said i think theyll be harder to obtain in the near future and they are always good to have.

Thanks for the help in advance and I am always open to advice. Despite the avatar, Im not the most knowledgeable person on firearms. I know the more popular ones but I know there are some not so heard of weapons that are fantastic and less expensive that I just simply have not heard of. :wink:

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

If you can, get a C&R license ASAP and get some cheap (as in "inexpensive") firearms direct. Handguns like semi-auto Makarovs (CZ 82 for example) in 9x18mm, semi-auto SKS carbine (Norinco, Yugo, Russian, etc.) in 7.62x39mm and bolt action Mauser K98 rifles (Russian WWII capture are flooding the market now) in 8mm can be had for very little. The ammo is readily available at a number of online vendors. Of course a large number of C&R eligible 9x19mm Lugers and 45 cal 1911 Colts are everywhere.

Generally Gunbroker.com is a good starting point. But if you get a C&R you can send copies to a few wholesellers and buy direct cheaper than from most commercial vendors.

At least I would go with C&R (FFL 03) guns for where I would start for a "cheap" collection. Then build out from there.

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Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Oh, okay...

I'll make this easy. Here's the online application to get an application for an FFL. Click the F7 CR tab in the blue area on the right side, then fill out the information and click send. In about a week you get the application.There's a huge back log now as everyone is aware that Barak will be the next Prez and want to "get it while its hot" because after January 20, the party's over.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm

After you fill out the application it may take up to four or five months now (used to be about a month). Hurry, times running out!


Useful hints:

Make sure you order this one from the list on the right: F 7CR (5310.16) - Application for License (Collector of Curios and Relics) Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, Firearms

ATF Forms you will receive in your packet:

ATF application form F 7CR If filling this out for yourself, you will use "Individual" or "Individual Collector" when it asks for position. Fill out 2 copies of this one, as you need to send one to the ATF and one to your Chief Law Enforcement Officer.

ATF US Citizenship certification Form F 5330.20 If you are filling out the application as an individual collector, then you will be the person certifying yourself. Add you Social Security Number to the document.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____

Mail your C&R Application and your US Citizenship Certification form, along with a money order for $30.00, to the ATF at:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
P.O. Box 409567
Atlanta, Georgia 30384-9567


Mail a copy of the application only, to your CLEO. Include a letter like this:

Dear Chief/Sheriff X,

Enclosed please find, as per federal regulation, a copy of my ATF Form 7CR. You are not required to take any action with respect to the enclosed form. If I can be of any service, or if there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at the address above. Please be advised this is not a license to do business, but only a license to collect.

Respectfully,


Soon2B C&R Guy

Some suggest you include the sentence in blue, if you are concerned you CLEO will try to stop or harass your application. Note, it is not up to the CLEO to accept or decline your application. You are onlty required to send them a copy. The ATF decides whether or not to issue the license.
It is also suggested you send this via certified mail. (I Never had a problem in the mountain states and never heard of anyone else ever having a CLEO problem for that matter)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____

ATF phone number in Atlanta - (404) 417-2750 or 1-866-662-2750
fax number is: (404) 417-2751 or 1-866-257-2749

After about two months you can call to check the status if it hasn't come yet. Much longer you can call your Congressman and probably get your C&R the following week. :wink:

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

with the C&R license arent you very limited in what you can buy though? Like buying a brand new ar 15 or .50 cal BMG probably wouldnt fly with a C&R right?

I've been thinking bout it, but in all honesty i dont want to be loaded up with sks's and wwI pistols...know what i mean ;)

But I thank you very much for the advise and will absolutley look into it. You're right about the wait, im affrain even the CCW will be a long wait shortly.

EDIT:
BTW, i applied for the application, so dont be suprised if in 5 months I PM ya again needing help ;)

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

I tend to carry my East German mak as my CCW more often anymore. It's compact and at times more convenient than my Glocks. That said, the SKSs are the same cal. as my AKs.

I also just got refinished a .303 British built on a #1 MKIII action that is marked B. S. A. 1917 with a new walnut stock and scope mount on the line as a possible new hunting rifle (or may just give it away to a nephew before elk season this year).

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

By all means, go ahead and get your concealed carry permit. If you're not sure how to go about it, look under your county's government in your phone book. It's often listed under "pistol permit" or something like that. I don't know what state you live in, but in some places it can take a few months to get, so do it now.

At this point, I think your primary consideration is going to be getting decent weapons that suit your anticipated needs and enough ammo for them. It's not the time to be buying guns that you're not sure you can get ammo for (or afford enough ammo for). Don't panic and buy something just out of fear that you won't be able to get it later. Unless you can afford to go out and buy all the guns on your wish list now, come to terms with the idea that you might not be able to get them all before the laws clamp down. Your first priority should be getting the guns that will be most useful to you.

Sit down with your wife and make a list of what you want in a pistol and a long gun. What kind of shooting do you anticipate doing with it? Distance shooting or close quarter shooting? Both? Home defense? Hunting (deer, varmints, birds?)? Do you anticipate carrying the pistol? Do you anticipate traveling on foot for any distance with the long gun and ammo (bug out, hunting, etc.)? How important is accuracy? How important is being able to drag it through the mud and still shoot it? Will you and your wife be sharing or each getting your own guns? How easy is it to get replacement parts (get them as soon as you can after buying the guns!)? If you and your wife have separate guns, do you want reciprocity in ammo? parts? How expensive and attainable is the ammo? If you want optics, good scopes are expensive (often more expensive than the rifle itself), so factor that into your planning. At any rate, you should be able to prioritize your needs and purchases.

Looking at the listings on gunbroker.com might be a good start. You'll get an idea of prices and availability. Call your local gun shops and find out what their fees are for your having a gun shipped to them. You'll probably find a wide range of differences in fees.

You don't have to pay a fortune for a good gun. You might want to look into Savage rifles. btw. Amazing accuracy for the money!

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

If possible, buy private party.

It doesn't really matter the caliber,you can always trade it to someone else for what you are looking for.

Do searches within your state and if necessary drive an hour or two(or four,I have before) and have no paperwork,no fees and no record of the sale.

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Well maddie you've asked some good questions.

The main things im looking for are decent prices on Ak's and AR's(or ideas of alternatives based, but that is secondary)

Pistols im looking for mainly in a home defence and CCW capacity. Eventualy my wife would get her own pistol, but we would look into that to find what works best for her when that time comes.

The CC license takes about 8 weeks to a few months here so im getting a jump on it ASAP. I've been putting it off for WAY WAY too long.


Accuracy is a very important factor, but also is semi-auto or full auto capabilties(i.e. no bolt actions for the main gun).

Like you said, having multiple types of ammo or hard to get ammo is something I am trying to avoid. I want more commonly available ammo and gun parts which is why Im trying to stick with more popular pistols, aks and ar's

The main anticipation is CQB or engagments at 100 yards or less, for obvious reasons. I in no way think there will be a mad max world, but there just may be a time when one needs to reach out and touch some one, or many some ones ;)

So I still think a good pistol for concealed carry is the first on the docket, with the rifles coming later in the year. Shotguns I dont need to worry about much(I've access to plenty, they just arent 'here')

As far as hunting rifles, I'm going to be picking up a remington 700 here shortly which serves for hunting all sorts of game ;)

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

8 weeks? In AZ the average wait time is about 3 days.

here are my random disconnected thoughts:

AKs, SKSs, Makarovs etc all take ammo that generally is made overseas, not here. Rules for importing ammo and firearms are different than for domestic manufacture. Imported items have to meet a "sporting purposes" test. This means that the next administration can significantly increase ammo prices for comblock calibers with an executive order or two, no legislation necessary. Some of my friends are selling their Maks, AKs etc. and buying things chambered in 9mm, 5.56 instead for just this reason.

Ar-15s are like erector sets, you can piece together an entire rifle pretty easily. Thus if money is tight, you can buy just the stripped receiver (about $120) and assemble the rifle later. The receiver is the firearm, everything else you can mail order. Might be best to buy magazines now though (ain't no way mags are going to cost less than $10 come November)

Handguns: what do you like? If it's affordable its a "Saturday night special". If it's expensive it's "designed only to kill". Possibly get a Kel-tec PF-9. It's 9mm, small enough to conceal just about anywhere, and will generally go for just under $300 new.

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

riddle me this batman, lets say that we have a shit load of ruskies or chinamen come rolling over the Canadian border, now I bet you are gonna find plenty of uses for that 762 chamberd rifle right?
well lets just say that you are not looking at that scenareo, lets say it is some bunch of clowns wearing big red noses and floppy shoes and carrying rifles that happen to chamber 5.56 and 9's. hummm me thinks out loud here that you have ammo for what ever you own, and in these situations you wont be going to teh local mall wart to get an other box of anything, even ammo, so what do you do?
I figure I would , in this hypothetical situation, use what I had till it was gone, and hope I had a chance to get me something else or more ammo along the way.
no one can have the right tool for the job all the time, but you can improvise, and adapt

see? it is easy:D

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Just got my FFL 3 form in the mail today, will be sending it out tomorrow!

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

well it be hard to get a form in ky to get my ffl3

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Really? I didnt seem to have any trouble at all. I filled it out about a week ago and just got it now, first class mail.

Edit: sorry, I think i read wrong, did you mean "will it be hard..."? I cant imagine it would, check the state laws on own guns as a collector, since thats what this is. You do have, once you're approved, keep a log book of all transaction, aquisition and dispositions you undergo AFTER you have the license.

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

i order both forms , do i need both

Re: Help: Places to buy and Ideas
 

Not totaly sure, check this link it, it may help

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=6&f=14&t=174340